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Revisiting Dungeons

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#1 BlkSabbath74
Revisiting Dungeons
 
It’s been a while since we’ve heard anything about Dungeons, and the last we heard was that they were still going forward, but there was something that wasn’t going to work as originally imagined, and so changes would have to be made.
 
It’s something that’s frequently brought up, so it would be great to hear a little more about it, even if only to hear confirmation that it is still part of the plan.
 
I’m wondering if the issues have to do with the game app automatically creating a path for the dungeon, as depicted in the screenshots posted a while back. I could see that being problematic, as there wouldn’t always be roads, and even when there are, they may not be accessible or safe for foot traffic, and there’s not really a good way for the app to determine that.
 
I would urge the Developers to check out how missions are run in Zombies, Run! It is a jogging/running application that features missions. It is very different than Maguss, but I think that Maguss could use a similar model to create really great dungeons.
 
Instead of having a pre-determined path, after opening the dungeon door the player(s) could find their own path, with encounters occurring based on the distance walked and becoming more difficult as you went. If you hit zero HP, you would be ejected from the dungeon. If killed, you would keep any XP accumulated, but lose any gold or items. To get out of the dungeon safely, you must return to the point of the Dungeon Entrance, which would create an interesting “Press Your Luck” dynamic, and give it the feel of a typical RPG/MMO dungeon where you have to get safely in and out.
 
In addition to combats, encounters could include traps and obstacles and other encounters. To get an idea of these, look at the event/encounter cards from games like Warhammer Quest, Descent, Talisman, and the D&D Adventure System (Wrath of Ashardalon, Castle Raveloft, Legends of Drizzt, Temple of Elemental Evil). If an entire encounter can be included on a single card, then it can easily be created in the app using text, simple randomization and possible still artwork. Those kind of encounters would add greatly to the richness of the game.
 
Anyway, just some ideas. I would love to hear what everyone else thinks.
I skewered him where he sat and saw the startled expression on his face as the wound began to flame.

"Oh, basely done!" he cried. "I had hoped for better of thee!"

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games," I said, brushing some sparks from my cloak.


- The Courts of Chaos, Roger Zelazny
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#2 Memnoich
(06-07-2017, 09:05 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: Revisiting Dungeons
 
I would urge the Developers to check out how missions are run in Zombies, Run! It is a jogging/running application that features missions. It is very different than Maguss, but I think that Maguss could use a similar model to create really great dungeons.
 
Instead of having a pre-determined path, after opening the dungeon door the player(s) could find their own path, with encounters occurring based on the distance walked and becoming more difficult as you went. If you hit zero HP, you would be ejected from the dungeon. If killed, you would keep any XP accumulated, but lose any gold or items. To get out of the dungeon safely, you must return to the point of the Dungeon Entrance, which would create an interesting “Press Your Luck” dynamic, and give it the feel of a typical RPG/MMO dungeon where you have to get safely in and out.
 
In addition to combats, encounters could include traps and obstacles and other encounters. To get an idea of these, look at the event/encounter cards from games like Warhammer Quest, Descent, Talisman, and the D&D Adventure System (Wrath of Ashardalon, Castle Raveloft, Legends of Drizzt, Temple of Elemental Evil). If an entire encounter can be included on a single card, then it can easily be created in the app using text, simple randomization and possible still artwork. Those kind of encounters would add greatly to the richness of the game.

I like this idea, the dungeon and encounters being based on distance. This would allow for you to choose your path, instead of getting told to go on private land, through road construction, or across dangerous areas. Make it so that you can have random encounters even traveling back to the start point. You could even throw in randomization's based off of direction of travel, kind of like a choose your own adventure book. Put in trapped chests, or Mimics, to make it fun. Add in special beasts and herbs that can only be found in the Dungeons. Even the "press your luck" idea, how long can you go before you have to turn back? the longer you are in/longer you travel, the more the reward, based off of your level.

This could even allow you to put in other premium items, A torch that lest you see ahead, so you can see up to your "Circle" ahead in the dungeon, instead of walking into an encounter. A teleport stone, only usable in dungeons, pulls you out of the dungeon, to your real world location, only usable out of combat, makes it so you don't have to try and get back to the starting point.
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#3 BlkSabbath74
(06-07-2017, 09:53 PM)Memnoich Wrote: I like this idea, the dungeon and encounters being based on distance. This would allow for you to choose your path, instead of getting told to go on private land, through road construction, or across dangerous areas. Make it so that you can have random encounters even traveling back to the start point. You could even throw in randomization's based off of direction of travel, kind of like a choose your own adventure book. Put in trapped chests, or Mimics, to make it fun. Add in special beasts and herbs that can only be found in the Dungeons. Even the "press your luck" idea, how long can you go before you have to turn back? the longer you are in/longer you travel, the more the reward, based off of your level.

This could even allow you to put in other premium items, A torch that lest you see ahead, so you can see up to your "Circle" ahead in the dungeon, instead of walking into an encounter. A teleport stone, only usable in dungeons, pulls you out of the dungeon, to your real world location, only usable out of combat, makes it so you don't have to try and get back to the starting point.

Oh, I like that idea, like the old Exit ot Xit spells in various games (Final Fantasy, Ultima, Bard's Tale, Wizardry) That took you safely out of the dungeon. That's a GREAT idea. That would definitely give it an old school RPG/CRPG feel.
I skewered him where he sat and saw the startled expression on his face as the wound began to flame.

"Oh, basely done!" he cried. "I had hoped for better of thee!"

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games," I said, brushing some sparks from my cloak.


- The Courts of Chaos, Roger Zelazny
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#4 Memnoich
Of course, it would mean having to add in Agro coding. Making it so not only would the Mobs come to you, but they could force you into battle, maybe even make it so that in an Agro battle you only have a chance of running away, if you try to run and fail, it drops you out of the dungeon and back into the real world, with you xp gain, but none of the items you gained in the dungeon. That would also mean adding in Dungeon Item identification code, that would only be removed once you 'Successfully' exited the Dungeon.

Hmm, I can see a couple more premium/High Level items, Summoning stones, Allows you to open a portal to the outside world, one way only, from outside world into dungeon, or a portal stone, allow you to teleport into a dungeon to join another person. Granted both of these would have to come after grouping is available, but it would allow for people that meet up on the street to join that person in the dungeon, instead of having to travel back to the start of the dungeon, and then catch up to their friend.
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#5 BlkSabbath74
(06-12-2017, 03:01 PM)Memnoich Wrote: Of course, it would mean having to add in Agro coding. Making it so not only would the Mobs come to you, but they could force you into battle, maybe even make it so that in an Agro battle you only have a chance of running away, if you try to run and fail, it drops you out of the dungeon and back into the real world, with you xp gain, but none of the items you gained in the dungeon. That would also mean adding in Dungeon Item identification code, that would only be removed once you 'Successfully' exited the Dungeon.

Hmm, I can see a couple more premium/High Level items, Summoning stones, Allows you to open a portal to the outside world, one way only, from outside world into dungeon, or a portal stone, allow you to teleport into a dungeon to join another person. Granted both of these would have to come after grouping is available, but it would allow for people that meet up on the street to join that person in the dungeon, instead of having to travel back to the start of the dungeon, and then catch up to their friend.

I'm with you on the agro. I'm not sure where, but I had a post somewhere talking about agro. I think it was where I was talking about the premium option of Cloak of Invisibility, because part of that feature was to prevent agro from Mobs. As I imagined it, it would be an on/off toggle for PVP/Duels, but would also prevent agro from mobs (assuming an agro mechanic was implemented) and prevent the player from being displayed on maps or appearing on lists of nearby players (a lot of assumptions here.

Agro, and a way to prevent it, would definitely be a game changer. Of course, IMO, just about everything in a dungeon should agro.

It would also be great if you could purchase/create some sort of dungeon key that would allow you to create a temporary dungeon entrance. This would be especially awesome if the dungeon entrance would then be open to anyone present. It would po9tentially create an event in and of itself.

Imagine it. Hey guys, Bob just got a dungeon key, and he's going to use it at Buck Creek Park at 2pm. Bob uses the dungeon key and opens a dungeon for a three hour span, and he and his party (assuming multi-player mechanics) venture into the dungeon, but then a bunc of other groups an individuals who heard about it and showed up at Buck Creek Park also use the dungeon entrance, so that you have a whole community of people wandering around the park in groups or solo, exploring this dungeon.

Stuff like that would be great for community building.

And mimics...booyah! One of my earliest gaming memories was an Apple IIc text game called SwordThrust and at the first intersection in the dungeon, if you went left, was a chest that was actually a mimic.

I also think that text-based gaming is a powerful and underused tool. I think Maguss could used it in a number of ways to really enhance their product without investing a lot of time, bandwidth or RAM.
I skewered him where he sat and saw the startled expression on his face as the wound began to flame.

"Oh, basely done!" he cried. "I had hoped for better of thee!"

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games," I said, brushing some sparks from my cloak.


- The Courts of Chaos, Roger Zelazny
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#6 Memnoich
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: It would also be great if you could purchase/create some sort of dungeon key that would allow you to create a temporary dungeon entrance. This would be especially awesome if the dungeon entrance would then be open to anyone present. It would po9tentially create an event in and of itself.

Imagine it. Hey guys, Bob just got a dungeon key, and he's going to use it at Buck Creek Park at 2pm. Bob uses the dungeon key and opens a dungeon for a three hour span, and he and his party (assuming multi-player mechanics) venture into the dungeon, but then a bunc of other groups an individuals who heard about it and showed up at Buck Creek Park also use the dungeon entrance, so that you have a whole community of people wandering around the park in groups or solo, exploring this dungeon.

Stuff like that would be great for community building.
I like the idea of the Dungeon key, make it a Extremely rare Chest item, 7th day Login reward, or even rare drop, but the dungeon created is based off your/combined(if in a group) level, so that you and your group get different level mobs, vs me and my higher group. But I am so with that, even more so, setup a weekly meetup, say the largest park near you, every Sat, bring your dungeon keys, and just spend a day with friends dungeon hunting, when one dungeon door times out, someone else opens another, talk about a huge community building event. If there were different dungeons that could be opened, with different mobs, ingredients, equipment, events, you could even setup a Monthly event where people have saved up keys, and "dungeon of Despair" will be in the NE corner of the park, "Undermountain" will be over in the NW corner by the playground, and "Temple of Nature Not Goodness" will be on the south lawn. So many possibilities.
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: And mimics...booyah! One of my earliest gaming memories was an Apple IIc text game called SwordThrust and at the first intersection in the dungeon, if you went left, was a chest that was actually a mimic.
Mine was Advanced Dungeons & Dragons on the Commodore 64, all ASCII based, but my first image that stuck with me was a Dragonlance game, I was going through a dungeon and ran into a stupid rust monster. Gawd I hated those things.
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: I also think that text-based gaming is a powerful and underused tool. I think Maguss could used it in a number of ways to really enhance their product without investing a lot of time, bandwidth or RAM.
Test based is really just the art of story telling. you get a good writer, with a story to tell, and you can build a text based dungeon. It would be easy enough, you have random events that happen because of the direction you walked and such, but you have specific events triggered by how far you walked from entrance. Special chest that have unique lewtz based around the dungeon story, and a final boss. You could even make riddles that have to be solved, "hidden" passageways, doors that need to be "unlocked(per the unlock spell)", there is a lot that can be done using just text, just need to find a good DM.
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#7 BlkSabbath74
(06-13-2017, 02:34 PM)Memnoich Wrote:
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: It would also be great if you could purchase/create some sort of dungeon key that would allow you to create a temporary dungeon entrance. This would be especially awesome if the dungeon entrance would then be open to anyone present. It would po9tentially create an event in and of itself.

Imagine it. Hey guys, Bob just got a dungeon key, and he's going to use it at Buck Creek Park at 2pm. Bob uses the dungeon key and opens a dungeon for a three hour span, and he and his party (assuming multi-player mechanics) venture into the dungeon, but then a bunc of other groups an individuals who heard about it and showed up at Buck Creek Park also use the dungeon entrance, so that you have a whole community of people wandering around the park in groups or solo, exploring this dungeon.

Stuff like that would be great for community building.
I like the idea of the Dungeon key, make it a Extremely rare Chest item, 7th day Login reward, or even rare drop, but the dungeon created is based off your/combined(if in a group) level, so that you and your group get different level mobs, vs me and my higher group. But I am so with that, even more so, setup a weekly meetup, say the largest park near you, every Sat, bring your dungeon keys, and just spend a day with friends dungeon hunting, when one dungeon door times out, someone else opens another, talk about a huge community building event. If there were different dungeons that could be opened, with different mobs, ingredients, equipment, events, you could even setup a Monthly event where people have saved up keys, and "dungeon of Despair" will be in the NE corner of the park, "Undermountain" will be over in the NW corner by the playground, and "Temple of Nature Not Goodness" will be on the south lawn. So many possibilities.
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: And mimics...booyah! One of my earliest gaming memories was an Apple IIc text game called SwordThrust and at the first intersection in the dungeon, if you went left, was a chest that was actually a mimic.
Mine was Advanced Dungeons & Dragons on the Commodore 64, all ASCII based, but my first image that stuck with me was a Dragonlance game, I was going through a dungeon and ran into a stupid rust monster. Gawd I hated those things.
(06-13-2017, 12:57 PM)BlkSabbath74 Wrote: I also think that text-based gaming is a powerful and underused tool. I think Maguss could used it in a number of ways to really enhance their product without investing a lot of time, bandwidth or RAM.
Test based is really just the art of story telling. you get a good writer, with a story to tell, and you can build a text based dungeon. It would be easy enough, you have random events that happen because of the direction you walked and such, but you have specific events triggered by how far you walked from entrance. Special chest that have unique lewtz based around the dungeon story, and a final boss. You could even make riddles that have to be solved, "hidden" passageways, doors that need to be "unlocked(per the unlock spell)", there is a lot that can be done using just text, just need to find a good DM.

I agree completely, text-based (choose your own adventure) are how it all started (remember Zork or the Texas Instruments Adventure series?). Those places still feel real to me, based on text descriptions, time spent playing, and some zany break-through events.

Text is super-cheap, in terms of development and in terms of data. Text-based adventures (choose your own adventure) are still completely relevant.

Throw some of that into what Maguss already has, and you are looking at something special.
I skewered him where he sat and saw the startled expression on his face as the wound began to flame.

"Oh, basely done!" he cried. "I had hoped for better of thee!"

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games," I said, brushing some sparks from my cloak.


- The Courts of Chaos, Roger Zelazny
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#8 BlkSabbath74
Couple of geniuses in this thread, I tell ya!
I skewered him where he sat and saw the startled expression on his face as the wound began to flame.

"Oh, basely done!" he cried. "I had hoped for better of thee!"

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games," I said, brushing some sparks from my cloak.


- The Courts of Chaos, Roger Zelazny
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