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Unlocked Phones [EDIT] Nevermind, Good Answers Provided [/EDIT]

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#21 zatokar
Hi guys. A big thanks to Helly and Quantum for trying to balance the negativity on this thread and providing clarifying information.

@Captain_kiwii it seems to me you are making conclusions too quickly and assuming things. As Helly already pointed out, I will do anything that's necessary to prevent cheating in the game, even if it would mean blocking rooted users. However, that wouldn't happen without proper deep investigation of the matter.

Tell me how exactly are you imagining that this would happen? That we just blocked rooted users without a valid reason?

Besides that, have you seen Paul's answer?

We will do all we can to prevent cheating, same as all we can to make the game available to everyone and everywhere. If this contradicts and there will be no way out plus we will be sure this is the best thing to do, yes we will have to block rooted users.
Maguss Founder
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#22 Praxio
@Zatokar do you have a plan for people playing from a moving vehicle? For instance, if I was on a bus would the excessive speed look like a bot?
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#23 Captain_kiwii
(10-13-2016, 12:12 PM)zatok Wrote: @Captain_kiwii  it seems to me you are making conclusions too quickly and assuming things. As Helly already pointed out, I will do anything that's necessary to prevent cheating in the game, even if it would mean blocking rooted users. However, that wouldn't happen without proper deep investigation of the matter.

I do not conclude, that's why I asked your view on this, I just reacted to

- The op asking for segregation (on no basis)
"Seriously, unless you WANT hacking players to ruin it all, please make it so the app will NOT run on unlocked phones. "
- The "Of course if we must, we would do that" which worried me. ( I came here to ask this before I saw that thread)


When you say "I will do anything that's necessary to prevent cheating in the game, even if it would mean blocking rooted users" It sounds like you just block everyone without any check (like niantic does). If it's more a targeted investigation like simply check gps location for incoherence (france/canada in one minute) then ok, no problem it's legit.

Quote:"Tell me how exactly are you imagining that this would happen? That we just blocked rooted users without a valid reason? "



As explained here, with the context of Pogo blind blocking and the op asking for blocking root out, without explicitly being told otherwise I'm fearing a blind block of root and jailbreak as a whole like niantic choose to do using safetynet.




Quote:" We will do all we can to prevent cheating, same as all we can to make the game available to everyone and everywhere. If this contradicts and there will be no way out plus we will be sure this is the best thing to do, yes we will have to block rooted users. "



Well, that means blocking people who back your project again, who may have done nothing except having a rooted phone.
That's the probleme, if we're talking of blind block that's wrong, but if we're talking of block users who actually cheat ( as explained above ) okay.

But that would really be a prick move to let people back the project and at the end, prevent them to play the game. You see my point?




I'm not here to be negativ, but I think it's legit to have this interrogation giving the impact it could have.
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#24 Memnoich
What it sounds like he's saying is blocking rooted phones is not off the table, but he would only do it, if after a deep investigation, that was the only way they could block the cheating. They want the game to be available to everyone, but fun as well, cheating kills that fun. It sounds like they have a decent handle on how they are going to try and prevent the cheating, but there are way more of us than them, and someone will think of something before they do. they don't want to block rooted/unlocked phones, but if they absolutely had to, to prevent certain cheats, then they may. Unfortunately most people don't understand the point of rooted/unlocked, majority of users can barely use their phone, so the fear is real. it's easy to blame something for cheating, most just want a scapegoat, it will pass as it becomes more mainstream.
As for POGO, you are correct, Niantic really only did it for the share holders, their original game, ingress, does not block rooted phones. It's my belief that they had to show something , and that, while broad, was a quick fix. They know it didn't get most botters, nobody bots on their phone, but it did stop other hacks that were happening. I'm sure at some point, once things slow down and they have more time,they mix fix it so rooted phones can be used again, but at they time, the small percentage of users that were lost was worth it to secure their supporters and backers.

It sounds as if you are on the fence so here is what I would say to you, Wait. The campaign still has about a month, spend sometime getting to know the community, and the developers. Search through the forums, what little there is for now, and speak with the developers. Get a feel for the game, and the mindset that is being built. As much as they would love it to, I don't see this having the tide of users that Pokemon Go had, so Cheating issues will be small, botters, probably non-existent, to begin with at least. Get a feel for the community, and participate, help it to grow, maybe even be a part of the tests on your unlocked/rooted phone to show what is capable of happening. When you feel comfortable, commit or back away. I can tell you this much, if you like the concept, this smaller, indie company would be better to back, the HP-GO if it every comes about. Anyone with the money to buy that IP, would not care about banding a few rooted/unlocked phone users to save other users from leaving.

(10-13-2016, 01:29 PM)Praxio Wrote: @Zatokar do you have a plan for people playing from a moving vehicle? For instance, if I was on a bus would the excessive speed look like a bot?

I'm sure it would be a fine line, but I think it would be more about figuring out if an account went from one dungeon to another too quickly with flag the account, and if there were multiple instances of that then it could be banned. Otherwise, with my limited knowledge of the gameplay and layout, the only other thing would be for ingredient farming. As we don't know a lot about that yet, I guess we could see a bot for collecting ingredients. In Ingress and Pokemon go, the Speed locks weren't so much about tracking botters, as it was about an attempt at enforced safety. Trying to make sure you aren't playing while driving, at this point, with the fact it looks like Ingredients are a little more difficult to find in the open world, just driving would make it difficult to collect those ingredients. So I'm not sure how well any type of mobile play would be used, Walking sure, biking maybe just to get from A to B, but nothing like walking an egg.
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#25 Captain_kiwii
Well I'm still awaiting "exact number" for the so said "small percentage" of rooted users playing pogo since where I work every one is except a few people who are not.
I'm not convinced that the percentage is "small", still waiting for real studies on the subject.

The problem is that, this did not stop at all the botting issue, it did not stop the spoofing (done on unrooted device or pc) and it has no correlation with trackers. So at the end, I have a hard time seeing the reason of the choice, I still have to see the hack that can only be done under rooted device.

The fact that niantic does not listen the community at all (pogo as ingress) just amplify the grief that players have to them.

I really hope it won't be the same here, and seriously hope that the bad choice (because it solves nothing, see pogo) of blocking root users never arise here (or that at least you give back money to people you just lock away...)


Also to answer your edit :

"It sounds as if you are on the fence so here is what I would say to you, "

I just don't want to be stabb in the back after pledging this project and being lock away for something i'm not responsible... I'm sure you understand that.

As for the reste of the message, I'm still exploring this forum, reading etc, I have not grief or whatsoever to the dev, I read about the project history, look at the failed kickstarter etc.

The sole thing is I don't want pogo to happen again, such a messy waste and for nothing... (bot still botting, spoofer still spoofing) even more if I back it.

But I think you got my point.
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#26 Memnoich
I think most of us do, and most of us feel the same way. We don't want to see any section of phone users excluded from playing except 2, those who just can't because the phone/os isn't capable of playing the game, and those that are wanting to cheat rather than play the game. I want to have duels with my friends and family, I want to explore adventures, quests and dungeons, I want to goto huge events with tons of people "Geeking out", I want to be part of that "Nerdy group playing wizards in the park", but the only way to do that is to have tons of players.
I think Zatokar, and most of the others here feel the same way, build it big and awesome, draw in the crowd, and just have fun bugging the Muggles Big Grin
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#27 Helly25
You said that nicely, Memnoich! <3
How many Muggles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
One. It is the only thing they are good for.

Why doesn't Voldemort have glasses?
Nobody nose.

How do Death Eaters freshen their breath?
With Dementos.
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